Art Talk - A New Global Art Community

Guests: Gracie Kendal

Host: PleaseWakeMeUp Idler

January 21, 2008


PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Ok folks, it is time. Welcome to Art Talk!

Scarp Godenot: Please, you look like Dancoyote Antonelli except no wand!

quadrapop Lane: hehe

Filthy Fluno: ;p;

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: for the new peope here, we meet once a week at this time to talk about, well art

Filthy Fluno: lol

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: (hmm, have to get a wand....)

Filthy Fluno: yea

Filthy Fluno: lol

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Sometimes we have a topic, sometimes we don't.

Filthy Fluno: GRACIE! GRACIE! CHEERS!

Scarp Godenot: And a mohawk!

Esch Snoats: Yo Sky

Gracie Kendal: hehehe

quadrapop Lane: hi Sky

Sky Hye: Hey

Gracie Kendal: Hiya Sky

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Tonight's victim is Gracie who will tell us all about her Master Thesis and we'll comment gently on it

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Or not so gently....

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Gracie, you have the floor!

Esch Snoats: /clap

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: hi Sky!

Sky Hye: Hi!

Gracie Kendal: LOL yea, I am juust starting out...sooooo

Gracie Kendal: Thank you thank you :))

Gracie Kendal: Well...This is a very recent thesis topic....I actually changed my topic after 2 years of working on my previous topic

quadrapop Lane: ouch

Gracie Kendal: But, I just wasnt passionate about my last one....

Gracie Kendal: and I am very VERY passionate about SL

Gracie Kendal: soooo....I decided to chance and write it on SL

Anton Braendle: Is this an Art History thesis or a studio-based one?

Gracie Kendal: Yes, Art History

Anton Braendle: Ah ...okay ...

Gracie Kendal: Although I am an artist...I am workign on my masters in Art Histsory

Anton Braendle: And your backgroyund in art history?

Gracie Kendal: sooo...I decided I wanted to talk about the Art in Sl...

Anton Braendle: Specialized or general?

Gracie Kendal: my focus is Modern and Contemporary

Gracie Kendal: Hi Cole, Sparkling :))

Sparkling Saintlouis: Hi Gracie!

Anton Braendle: M'kay

Gracie Kendal: my original thesis was on representations of women artists in film...

Muzicole Undertone: Hello

Anton Braendle: Aiiiieeeee!

Filthy Fluno: great turnout

Gracie Kendal: I am a true postmodernist...

Esch Snoats: ssssh

Todd Action: hey cole

Muzicole Undertone: Hi Todd

Gracie Kendal: even tho my art is mostly modern..anyway....

Sky Hye: Please define post modernist, then. :)

Gracie Kendal: so....I have been looking for different angles...

Gracie Kendal: LLOL...well.. the idea that everythign is recycled...appropriated...nothing is original

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Welcome to Art Talk Abbott

Gracie Kendal: challenging convention...

Gracie Kendal: ummm

Abbott Ewing: thanks

Gracie Kendal: thats a simplistic definition

Gracie Kendal: Abbott!!!

quadrapop Lane: rather

Anton Braendle: Challenging convention? How so>

Gracie Kendal: LOL

Sky Hye: Okay. Sounds like what I normally hear.

Gracie Kendal: well...

Gracie Kendal: as far as my thesis is concerned... a lot of people don't see gamesas art...

Gracie Kendal: I mean there is sooo much to it...

Gracie Kendal: so it is the blurring of high and low art...

Anton Braendle: Hmm ...are you saying SL is a game, then?

Gracie Kendal: and ugh..chat lat niw

Gracie Kendal: nooo, not at all...

Filthy Fluno: SL can certainly be considered a game

Gracie Kendal: trust me...NOO

Scarp Godenot: Dis aint no stinkin game!

Gracie Kendal: but...

Gracie Kendal: A lot pf people...

Gracie Kendal: exactly

Gracie Kendal: Filthy

quadrapop Lane: no game here

Filthy Fluno: some people game in here

Anton Braendle: 'kay

Gracie Kendal: ok...

Sparkling Saintlouis: The incredible complexity of SL is certainly consistent with postmodernism

Gracie Kendal: soo...

Gracie Kendal: my idea...

Anton Braendle: Some people game in RL, too, though

Filthy Fluno: yes

quadrapop Lane: yes but it is lieksaying all computers are game machines... just because some people use them for games

Gracie Kendal: yes, Sparkling...

Esch Snoats: I think the "Is SL a game?" should be a topic for another time everyone :D

Filthy Fluno: yes

Gracie Kendal: LOL yea

quadrapop Lane: SL is a tool, just as a computer is a tool

Gracie Kendal: sooo

Filthy Fluno: go gracie go

quadrapop Lane: just SL is virtual tool

Filthy Fluno: let's let gracie move forward

Anton Braendle: Yes, Esch...absolutley. THough it has a bearing on where this could go

quadrapop Lane: sry gracie

Muzicole Undertone: I prefer the word 'platform' to describe SL

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: /wake writes that down...

Filthy Fluno: i prefer the word.. lagalicous time consuming platform

Gracie Kendal: I love the idea of comparing the SL art community here to that of the international bohemian Paris of the 1920's

Filthy Fluno: Hi Strawberry

quadrapop Lane: lol

Todd Action: there you go gracie

Todd Action: build on that

Anton Braendle: Amen, Filthy!

Gracie Kendal: I liked the idea..of collaboration...education..dialogues, debates between artists...

Gracie Kendal: how artists work together...or not...

Gracie Kendal: and form a culture, a community here

Muzicole Undertone: Does collaboration actually happen in SL on a large scale?

Anton Braendle: But didnt the "international bohemian Paris of the 1920's" have a definite critical apparatus for what they were doing?

Scarp Godenot: Bitter disputes, jealousy and accusations!

Gracie Kendal: Not necessarily..but..it didnt in Paris either

Todd Action: it does in the fact that we are building a community

Anton Braendle: Something that is lacking here?

Gracie Kendal: true Todd

Gracie Kendal: sure..I am very open

Gracie Kendal: Im just starting out here

quadrapop Lane: no critics? lol

Gracie Kendal: so any comments...suggestions...

Gracie Kendal: shoot

Anton Braendle: Ididn't say "critic" ...

Gracie Kendal: just dont kill...LOL

Todd Action: many of the 20's artists came to be in the place, not there for the theory per se

Scarp Godenot: All critics should be strangled!

Filthy Fluno: i vote that you get Anton to write it for you

Filthy Fluno: he's seems like really smart

Anton Braendle: I said "critical apparatus" ...

Todd Action: gracie's issue is she has no argument yet

Todd Action: nothing to defend as per a thesis

Filthy Fluno: anton

Scarp Godenot: This is paris in the 20's right?

Gracie Kendal: I need a theoretical backign too

Filthy Fluno: check out Slart Magazine

quadrapop Lane: ok Anton I see the s=distinction

Filthy Fluno: that's quite critical

Gracie Kendal: LOL yea Filthy

Anton Braendle: Ah, thanks TOdd ...good point

quadrapop Lane: true

quadrapop Lane: but who and how many read it?

Anton Braendle: SLART is and DC are about the two most "critical apparati" around here

Anton Braendle: *grin

Gracie Kendal: well...that doesnt matter to me....

Anton Braendle: Doesn't maatter...it's there and can be referenced ...

Gracie Kendal: I want to talk about SL

Gracie Kendal: not you Anton

Filthy Fluno: yea

Gracie Kendal: sorry

Filthy Fluno: ha

Gracie Kendal: Quad

Gracie Kendal: hehe

Shaky Fitzgerald: please let her speack

Anton Braendle: Adn you have to be able to talk about SL in terms of SL ...

Shaky Fitzgerald: I came to hear her thoughts

Anton Braendle: And that means you need a critical apparatus from whihc to do it ...

Emilie Cryotank: yes

Gracie Kendal: well..I want to go to conferences and Symposiums..and argue that SL is importnant to the Rl art community

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: a big w00t to that

Gracie Kendal: that we should be counted and acknowelded

Anton Braendle: How is important to the RL community?

Gracie Kendal: ugh

Todd Action: yes gracie but expand upon that defense somehow

Todd Action: how and why i agree

Scarp Godenot: It is the beginning of the Virtual World ubiquity of the future!

Filthy Fluno: let's go one by one here

Filthy Fluno: how aboutthis

Filthy Fluno: and say

Filthy Fluno: i have an idea

Gracie Kendal: Its just as important as char davies...and her new media

Filthy Fluno: why or why not its important

Filthy Fluno: no?

Emilie Cryotank: we need a flipping talking stick

quadrapop Lane: who?

Gracie Kendal: definitely scarp

quadrapop Lane: lol

Gracie Kendal: LOL

Gracie Kendal: hahaha

orb Thursday: hahha

Filthy Fluno: well.. i can mute like.. everyone?

Gracie Kendal: seriously...

Gracie Kendal: wait...

Filthy Fluno: k

Muzicole Undertone: Are you drawing a distinction between art that has been imported into SL and now exists effectively in a ew medium and art that was created IN SL using prims, textures etc... Where he two meet etc?

Gracie Kendal: I would really like to know...why everyone is here, as an artist...

Gracie Kendal: that doesnt matter Cole

Shaky Fitzgerald: leave rl out of this

Filthy Fluno: no

Filthy Fluno: leave RL in

quadrapop Lane: cant do that

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: SL freed me to be an artist

Filthy Fluno: its all good

Gracie Kendal: there are so many artists here who do rl things

quadrapop Lane: sl and Rl artists are collaborating

Gracie Kendal: you dont have to talk about Rl...but..as an artist..

Shaky Fitzgerald: right now it does not exiast for us

Gracie Kendal: exactly wake

quadrapop Lane: on virtual interaction pieces in RL

Shaky Fitzgerald: exsist

Gracie Kendal: why shaky?

Abbott Ewing: Im only an artist in SL

Todd Action: why arent you in rl abbott

Shaky Fitzgerald: because we are at this momment in sl

Scarp Godenot: An artist is an artist wherever they do their art...

Gracie Kendal: yes, scarp...

Filthy Fluno: amen scarp

Esch Snoats: Exactly Scarp

quadrapop Lane: sorry shaky I'm in both atm

Gracie Kendal: me too..

quadrapop Lane: and always are

Shaky Fitzgerald: true enough

Gracie Kendal: and I believe SL should be too...

Esch Snoats: This falls back on SL being a tool to use.

Anton Braendle: "Blended reality" thank you very much ...

quadrapop Lane: yep

Esch Snoats: Some artists use canvas and paints, others use SL

Gracie Kendal: true Esch...

quadrapop Lane: some use nboth

Shaky Fitzgerald: but we are bringing our rl life to sl

Emilie Cryotank: some use both though

Gracie Kendal: yes shaky

Todd Action: is sl a tool or an environment in which tools are used to create art

quadrapop Lane: gah BRB RL intrudes...

Scarp Godenot: I assert that there are new art forms being invented here.

Esch Snoats: And I think that's why Gracie thinks it's important that RL take notice of SL

Gracie Kendal: both

Xerxes Druart: Is Sl really anymore than using maya to make something?

Esch Snoats: as another way of showing tha tart

Gracie Kendal: Both todd

Muzicole Undertone: But some is created within SL

Xerxes Druart: its only a 3D engine after all

Filthy Fluno: i don't think we can really define SL so tightly yet

Anton Braendle: Heh ...wio uses Maya ...

Shaky Fitzgerald: let rl discover it all by itself

Emilie Cryotank: and the rub (to me) is peole who are not on sl can't experience the art....

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: SL is more than a 3D engine, it is an interaciton between people, not avatars

Gracie Kendal: true Emilie...but I'd like to change that...

orb Thursday: hallelujah wake

Xerxes Druart: is teh main difference not how we create but the viewing experience?"

Emilie Cryotank: ah, how? ;)

Gracie Kendal: I mean..why cant we get SL noticed...just as soho, or Venice...

Xerxes Druart: we are IN the program

Gracie Kendal: write about it..talk about it...

Shaky Fitzgerald: and why

Gracie Kendal: I'd love to get this published in Artnews..

Filthy Fluno: gracie

Gracie Kendal: or Art Forum

Gracie Kendal: yes?

Todd Action: have to write it first gracie

Anton Braendle: Err ... you mean the "apprehensiojn" experience ... not all art here is visual

Esch Snoats: Ouch Todd :D

orb Thursday: i believe it will be soon , gracie

Xerxes Druart: Ars Electronica this year was themed for SL - thats pretty good notice

Gracie Kendal: wow. see I didnt know that X

Gracie Kendal: hehehee true Todd

Filthy Fluno: the way to get SL noticed is to keep attracting and developing artists in here

Gracie Kendal: Esch!!!! hahaha

Esch Snoats was thinking the same thing, he admits.

Gracie Kendal: true too..but since I have to write my thesis....

Gracie Kendal: So honestly...why do we as artists come to SL

Anton Braendle: Yes, about that thesis ... can we get abck to that?

Filthy Fluno: back to the theses

orb Thursday: its avisual blast, this medium

Filthy Fluno: i think gracie is looking for some good ideas here as well

Scarp Godenot: A new form being invented now is the new PARSEC project where interactive 3D immersive art is created by triggering it with voice. This can only be seen and done inside of VR.

Gracie Kendal: LOL and this chat Orb

orb Thursday: and user friendly

Sky Hye: Are you asking for us to answer that for tis meeting, then?

orb Thursday: hahahah

Sky Hye: this

Anton Braendle: Err, Scarp ...no ...it's possible in RL ...

Gracie Kendal: noooo

Gracie Kendal: sky

orb Thursday: perhaps to say there is no deliniation between sl and rl art

Gracie Kendal: just an open discussion about your thoughts

Filthy Fluno: ok

Gracie Kendal: on my topic...

orb Thursday: why seperate the two?

Xerxes Druart: SL is really a technique? Like watercolour

Gracie Kendal: and to give me ideas..

Sky Hye: How did you want us to communicate our reasons to you?

Scarp Godenot: Anton in a lame way in RL

Xerxes Druart: defined by its medium?

Gracie Kendal: no need to...

Muzicole Undertone: Surely there must be a difference between painting IRL and then creating a new way to view that painting in SL - a point of accessibility and using the 3D creational abilities of SL to create SL idiomatic art?

Gracie Kendal: yes, X..but...

orb Thursday: :)

Gracie Kendal: I am talkigna bout it as a community

Filthy Fluno: whoa

Filthy Fluno: people

Gracie Kendal: QWait

Gracie Kendal: ugh

Gracie Kendal: lol

Filthy Fluno: let's read

Filthy Fluno: and then comment

Filthy Fluno: slow this down

Gracie Kendal: ok....

Gracie Kendal: wait...

Filthy Fluno: or i'm tossing you in the lake

Filthy Fluno: LAKE!

Gracie Kendal: I can write a whole book on Sl vs RL..the art techniques..etc

Gracie Kendal: I mean..there is soo much

Gracie Kendal: I am tryign to narrown it down

Gracie Kendal: I love the idea of the art community here

Gracie Kendal: I have made so many amazing friencs...

Gracie Kendal: networking...

Gracie Kendal: rl connections...

Gracie Kendal: there are amazing spaces here..

Filthy Fluno: ok. true.. but is that worthy of art history?

Gracie Kendal: there is no different than the art community in Paris

Filthy Fluno: we need to dig deeper

Gracie Kendal: sure, why not...

Filthy Fluno: cause its too warm and fuzzy

Anton Braendle: What is art history in SL?

orb Thursday: hahahah

Gracie Kendal: I am going to talk to Tayzia to get more of a history....

Filthy Fluno: yes

Filthy Fluno: good place to start

Emilie Cryotank: does anyone document the art projects here/

Emilie Cryotank: ?

Gracie Kendal: definitely

Filthy Fluno: i do

Anton Braendle: What "made" the community a community in Paris 1919 ...

Scarp Godenot: Anton, art history in SL is the development of interactive 3D art.

Gracie Kendal: there are so many, including blogs

Gracie Kendal: LOL

Gracie Kendal: thepeople...

Anton Braendle: Oh, PUllleeeze ...

Filthy Fluno: its also the history of exhibitions

Anton Braendle: Is anyone really documenting it?

Gracie Kendal: its much more scarp

orb Thursday: and good documentation....

Filthy Fluno: yes!

Filthy Fluno: i am!

Scarp Godenot: Yeah I know.

Scarp Godenot: Just one thing

Anton Braendle: And how does that compare to the documentation of RL art?

Gracie Kendal: and I am now

Emilie Cryotank: everything ;)?

Filthy Fluno: its much easier to do it here

Anton Braendle: Yeah, everything?

Gracie Kendal: and nothing....

Gracie Kendal: I mean...

Tee Barrs: document only the necessarys

Gracie Kendal: it deopends on yoru angle..

Anton Braendle: Talked to any of the SL Librarians or goddess forfend, archivists in here?

Emilie Cryotank: who decides what is necessary?

Gracie Kendal: or theoretically...

Ludo Merit: Who judges?

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Lets get back to Paris folks...........

Gracie Kendal: you can talk about it formally...

Filthy Fluno: paris?

Gracie Kendal: no, not yet Anton

Gracie Kendal: Emilie...that will be my decision for my thesis

Emilie Cryotank: ah!

Gracie Kendal: So.....

Gracie Kendal: plus..its only 5-ish pages...

Gracie Kendal: 50

Gracie Kendal: sorry

Gracie Kendal: LOL

Anton Braendle: 50 pages?

Emilie Cryotank: damn small5 pg thesis

Anton Braendle: For your thesis?

Gracie Kendal: yep

Gracie Kendal: I know

Gracie Kendal: LOL yea

Gracie Kendal: I know..I will go over

Esch Snoats: She writes slow

Tee Barrs: guess it is all valuable to the future

Gracie Kendal: thats why I need to narrow it down

Gracie Kendal: hahahaha Esch

Tee Barrs: yes

Gracie Kendal: absolutely

Anton Braendle: YEs, I guess you will need to do some judicious "narrowing" ...

Gracie Kendal: I'd love to document everything and be the Art Historian of SL

Anton Braendle: Then do it ...

Muzicole Undertone: Or small, she might write really really small

Gracie Kendal: but for now..I need to narrow it down...

Gracie Kendal: LOL

Filthy Fluno: you got tons of good stuff here

Filthy Fluno: anton... could you tell us what your background is?

Filthy Fluno: i mean

Filthy Fluno: ?

Anton Braendle: Nope ...no commment ...

Filthy Fluno: ha

Esch Snoats: lol

Gracie Kendal: LOL

Filthy Fluno: scaredy cat

Scarp Godenot: Maybe a take is the democratization of art and the ease of interacting with artist worldwide that hasn't been available previously.

Anton Braendle: Let's just say that I do know what I 'm tlaking about ... okay?

Filthy Fluno: no

Filthy Fluno: you are reading it from Gardners!

Esch Snoats: You have to back it with credentials Anton :D

Gracie Kendal: thats a good word...Democratization too...

Gracie Kendal: Come on guys....

Xerxes Druart: but it has led to a lot of bad art here

Gracie Kendal: why are you here?

Gracie Kendal: as artists?

Xerxes Druart: its often like loking at stuff at teh womens institute

Gracie Kendal: or art patrons?

Scarp Godenot: There is bad art everywhere.

Muzicole Undertone: Democratization... Sounds like a W. Bushism

orb Thursday: both gracie

Emilie Cryotank: well you have to make alota crap before you can make something good

Gracie Kendal: Xerxes!!!!!!!

Sky Hye: You ask this, but when and how do you want answers?

orb Thursday: and the community

Esch Snoats: I don't think anyone comes into SL with art in mind, it's something you find out once you get in world and go "Heyyy I can show my stuff here!"

Emilie Cryotank: Oh I did

Gracie Kendal: well..just genrally right now Sky

Gracie Kendal: to get ideas

Filthy Fluno: yea

Scarp Godenot: I came in with art in mind.

Gracie Kendal: seeee

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: or, Heyyyyy, I can MAKE my stuff here, the stuff in my mind

Esch Snoats: When did you join SL Scarp?

Xerxes Druart: I am surprised there i snot more generative art

Scarp Godenot: Just 3 1/2 months ago

Xerxes Druart: given the medium

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Gravity and Physics and Transparency were my enemies, now they are my friends

Xerxes Druart: computer/program generated works

Xerxes Druart: artificial life (but then I would say that)

Pi Pooraka: what do you mean by generative art?

Esch Snoats: Ok, I can see why you thought that coming in. When Filth and I started SL, there were just 40 galleries and only a couple hundred artists. I had zero clue there was an art community in world till I logged in for the first time. So it wasn't my intention to be an artist in SL when I joined.

Xerxes Druart: art that produces more than the artist puts in

Scarp Godenot: My "art mind" has been expanded since I came here.

Xerxes Druart: that is controversial as in a way everything is ordained by the program

Gracie Kendal: Great Scarp....

Xerxes Druart: but there can be generative , emergent propertties if a system is complex enougjh

Xerxes Druart: or the possibilities so enormous they become unpredictable

Scarp Godenot: I see new possiblilities that I hadn't thought about before.

Gracie Kendal: there is as much diverse art here, as there was in Paris too...

Gracie Kendal: ugh..chat lag

Tee Barrs: think about the net

Gracie Kendal: ok....

Tee Barrs: it has got us all

Tee Barrs: wow

Gracie Kendal: the net...

Emilie Cryotank: damn net

Tee Barrs: internet

Esch Snoats: ;p;

Gracie Kendal: there are 'artist community' websites all over

Esch Snoats: lol

Gracie Kendal: we are different

Muzicole Undertone: In SL there are no practical limitations to what can be 'virtually physically' constructed...

Gracie Kendal: we get together real time...

Gracie Kendal: like now..

Gracie Kendal: to discuss...

Xerxes Druart: an awful lot o fit is conventional 2D "paintings" or 3D sculptures

Pi Pooraka: the artists in Paris just kind of hung out together and shared ideas

Xerxes Druart: few works truly exploit the medium

Gracie Kendal: totally...

orb Thursday: and drank

Tee Barrs: utopia

Tee Barrs: maybe

Xerxes Druart: it seemxs to me that they are the truly intersting pieces

Emilie Cryotank: one can argue that we could do this in an AOL chat room

Gracie Kendal: LOL I'm drinking now, let me tell you :)))

Pi Pooraka: but they really did not do much in the way of collaborating

Xerxes Druart: things you cant m,ake in RL

Scarp Godenot: Xerxes: that is what is exciting

Tee Barrs: a pathway towards it

orb Thursday: hahahah

Gracie Kendal: true Emilie... so that is something I need to think about...

orb Thursday: oh yes..i believe they did

Sparkling Saintlouis: Gracie, it seems to me that you are talking about two things--community and the nature of 'art'

orb Thursday: collaborate

Gracie Kendal: why are we different than an AOL chatroom

Gracie Kendal: noooo

Gracie Kendal: for me its community

Esch Snoats: Because AOL sucks and we don't?

orb Thursday: hahahaha

Gracie Kendal: LOL Esch

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: community is the word

Gracie Kendal: yep

Gracie Kendal: absolutely

Ludo Merit: I have a question about community.

Scarp Godenot: The medium has yet to be fully developed in an artistic sense and we can be the developers. That is exciting.

Gracie Kendal: suer Ludo

Emilie Cryotank: I think this is different because with our avatars we can interact -w- the art like we could if we were physically there with it.

Esch Snoats: Sure Ludo

Xerxes Druart: there is more of an emotional connect

Gracie Kendal: absolutely Scarp

Emilie Cryotank: It's not quite the same, but alot closer than viewing it on a website

Todd Action: they did collaborate in that one artists ideas spurred the next artist on

Gracie Kendal: yes, X!!!!

orb Thursday: yes wake...that is the parallel to the paris group

quadrapop Lane: need to focuis on the interrelationships then instead of gettuing hung up on what is actually made if into community

Muzicole Undertone: We are different from an AOL chat room because here the art can exist as part of a space that the mind understands - a virtual environment.

Gracie Kendal: yes Todd

Scarp Godenot: Emilie hits it on the head.

Gracie Kendal: true Quad

Xerxes Druart: like we may have experienced things or places in SL together

Pi Pooraka: todd...that's not a collaboration

orb Thursday: they shared paintbrishes for heavens sake

Anton Braendle: Todd...that isn't a collaboration ..

Gracie Kendal: wait..need to scroll back for Emilie

Gracie Kendal: LOL

Anton Braendle: THat's an influence ...

Todd Action: mm i dont agree

Ludo Merit: It seems to me as someone with no education in art that I somehow am not qualified to really belong in an art community here, even though it is different here.

Esch Snoats: Why do you think that Ludo?

quadrapop Lane: how about how elros and juria are collaboating and shaering ideas...

Filthy Fluno: no ludo

Filthy Fluno: not true

Emilie Cryotank: and art, and enviornments

Gracie Kendal: Ludo..... not true

Pi Pooraka: ludo...you do

Anton Braendle: Collaboration literally emans working together ...

Anton Braendle: Define community and define collaboration ...

Emilie Cryotank: I think too is psychological, in how one can intereact -w- people here

Muzicole Undertone: I think that it's the environment that defines SL art as much as the art does, but then I'm a builder, I would say that.

orb Thursday: many many great artist were not formally trained

Ludo Merit: I hang around the fringes. I sold 2 paintings.

orb Thursday: many

Gracie Kendal: LOL cole

Anton Braendle: Aldo and Juria "collaborated" to make a mixed form ...

Xerxes Druart: but this is a lot easier than a conventional art forum

Ludo Merit: "paintings'

Tee Barrs: many great artists in here

Anton Braendle: Two diffeerent emdia together .

Tee Barrs: in sl

Gracie Kendal: Ludo...so did many many GREAT artists

Anton Braendle: That's a collaboration

Xerxes Druart: it gets all precious and people are afrqaid to speak out in case their question sounds naive

Scarp Godenot: Easy shmeazy.... that is irrelevant. Art is judged on other things than how hard it is.

Emilie Cryotank: Well that's an ego thing

quadrapop Lane: I collasborate with scripters when what I want to do is beyond my lsl ability

Ludo Merit: Xerxes, exactly, except that I don't scare easy

Filthy Fluno: great comment quad

Filthy Fluno: give quad a bratworst pizza esch

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: this is a LOT less intimidating! In RL sometimes I don't want t owalk into a gallery AS A CUSTOMER, too intimidating. SL is accessible.

Gracie Kendal: LOL yea totally..as artists have done for along tume now Quad

Xerxes Druart: there is no ego here - you can tell who in RL is Jo from the corner shop or Fred director of teh LA art museum or whatever

Tee Barrs: art is relative to all

Esch Snoats points to the counter, "It's over there, help yourself"

Anton Braendle: And that, quad, is one of the unique aspects of art in here ...it requires good scripting ...

Gracie Kendal: yes..Wake

quadrapop Lane takes the pizza and devours it hungrily - is lunch time here

Tee Barrs: and i have enjoyed great art in sl

Filthy Fluno: thanks esch

Filthy Fluno: thanks for nuffin

Todd Action: mm sorry. emergency must dash. bye all

Filthy Fluno: floater

Esch Snoats: Later Todd!

Filthy Fluno: bye todd

Gracie Kendal: uh oh...

quadrapop Lane: oooh bye todd

Gracie Kendal: hope everything is ok

Ludo Merit: I agree with wnoever said it is freer here. I did not consider myself a visual artist until I got here, just performing and writing.

Anton Braendle: And actually, Xerxes, there is very definitley ego in here ..no different than RL in that respect ...

Sky Hye: How many people came in to do art is sl? That is, planned it from the start?

Gracie Kendal: sooo...I love the idea of the community...that we all build it together....

Scarp Godenot: It is freer here because the 'critics' have yet to arrive.... heh heh

Filthy Fluno: NOT ME!

Ludo Merit: Not visual art, but yes.

Esch Snoats: lol Scarp

Gracie Kendal: Not me....

Ludo Merit: Me too gracie

Muzicole Undertone: The critics are the ppl who buy art in SL

orb Thursday: hahahah scarp

Filthy Fluno: bring on the critics

Sky Hye: Did people of 1919 Paris decide to be artists only after arriving?

Emilie Cryotank: I did, and to network and experiment

Filthy Fluno: they will bash in here as much as they bash in RL

Strawberry Holiday: I didn't even know what SL was when I loggedi n the first time.. how could I have known what I was going to do here?

Tee Barrs: surprise

Tee Barrs: hehe

Gracie Kendal: I dont think so Sky...most came to Paris, because they saw what was taking place...

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: that's not exactly fair Sky, SL is too brand new, they knew what their world was like

Sky Hye: Or, did they, as I expect, gravitate to paris?

Anton Braendle: Too new?

Gracie Kendal: and the war

Anton Braendle: How OLD is SL?

Esch Snoats: 5 years

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: SL is too new, we're making it up as we go along.

Anton Braendle: "Bueller? Bueller"?

Gracie Kendal: I mean..Paris was teh center of Art for a long long time before the 20's

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: In Paris 1919, people had been painting for THOUSANDS of years already.

Muzicole Undertone: It's interesting to consider that is a art community here, and not in AOL chatrooms.. or IS there? I dunno. What about other virtual worlds... We know they suck, but do THEY have art communities?

Gracie Kendal: which is whats great about it Wake

Filthy Fluno: lol

quadrapop Lane: more RL stuff - kids and SL are about as good a mix as art & kids

Scarp Godenot: Gracie: good point. Coming to the place where it is perceived to be happening. That is what brought me here.

Sky Hye: And we can't say that of sl, aside from the format, that it is here to make what we wish within.

Gracie Kendal: Hi Alizarin

Gracie Kendal: totally Scarp

Gracie Kendal: I just met with an artist today..a Rl artist...

Gracie Kendal: I told her about it..and she aske me, should I be there???

Gracie Kendal: she's 81...but

Alizarin Goldflake: Hi Gracie

Gracie Kendal: I said...sure

Gracie Kendal: LOL

orb Thursday: i have had that same exp gracie

Emilie Cryotank: 81?

Emilie Cryotank: sweet

Gracie Kendal: she has a studio in venice beach

Gracie Kendal: www.jeanedelstein.com

Ludo Merit: Why not? I'm 67

Gracie Kendal: totally

Filthy Fluno: whoa

Filthy Fluno: that's like... OLD!

Gracie Kendal: she wants to get out there..and she is already well known

Esch Snoats: Age also doesn't matter, especially when dealing with art

Ludo Merit laughs

Gracie Kendal: LOL filthy

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Filthy is 13 in RL

Scarp Godenot: We must get over the hurdle of being perceives as Wow game geeks, however.

Tee Barrs: 62 and counting

Tee Barrs: hehee

Emilie Cryotank: folks who are my moms age tend to fear the computer in my experience ;D

Alizarin Goldflake: at 86 one should have no more shoulds lol

Filthy Fluno: yea

Gracie Kendal: well, in SL age nore gender

Gracie Kendal: I dont think

Ludo Merit: Let's keep counting, Tee!

Anton Braendle: NAh, Filthy's only 12 ...he was lying about being 13

Emilie Cryotank: nor physical appearance either

Gracie Kendal: true Emilie..thats why Im her art assistant.hehehe

Tee Barrs: of course

Esch Snoats: I like it that she asked if she should be here, that means she hasn't "settled"

Filthy Fluno: looks down his pants... sigh... yea.. about 12

Gracie Kendal: LOL Esch

Gracie Kendal: Ok guys...

Gracie Kendal: boys

Filthy Fluno: k

Alizarin Goldflake: lol Filthy

Filthy Fluno: sorry gracie

Tee Barrs: like stairstep u do get to the top sometime

Anton Braendle: Shrinking Filthy?

Muzicole Undertone: What you mean, none of you are the same ages as your avs look??? I'm dumbfounded.

Gracie Kendal: lol

Tee Barrs: ehehhee

Gracie Kendal: soooo

Gracie Kendal: LOL cole

Anton Braendle: I couldn't find the right shade of gray hair ...

Gracie Kendal: honestly....

Esch Snoats: I couldn't find the right shade of scalp...

Filthy Fluno: lmao

Ludo Merit: Hey, my RL bod doesn't look 67 either.

Filthy Fluno: esch

Gracie Kendal: I mean...I could even get into Performance and Duchamp... in teh 20s

Filthy Fluno: yes gracie

Filthy Fluno: you should

Filthy Fluno: absolutely!

Gracie Kendal: and go into Sl with that angle

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: yes, do it.

Gracie Kendal: thats only cuz you want me to write abou tyou Filthy :P

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: please

Gracie Kendal: LOL

Tee Barrs: dont need angles

Filthy Fluno: i think that you ned to deal with the avatar

Filthy Fluno: and yes

Tee Barrs: just straight ahead

orb Thursday: i am contacting a lot of rl artists currently and most of them want to join sl for the community...for exposure and social and a few, the medium

Filthy Fluno: i want 7 pages

Anton Braendle: Good point Filthy

Gracie Kendal: wow.Orb...I want to talk to you later :))

Filthy Fluno: the avatar as art is soooooo important

Alizarin Goldflake: yes - SL as a medium in and of itself

Gracie Kendal: I am going to stick with community...

Gracie Kendal: and write about avatar and identity inanother paper

Esch Snoats: And I think Orb, that that is the biggest boost to the SL art community. You get exposure, even if it doesn't lead to anything it's still getting your work out to show people. I've had more people look at my art in SL in the 2 years I've been here than my entire life in RL

Gracie Kendal: trust me, I thought about it

Anton Braendle: Define community, Gracie?

Filthy Fluno: k

Scarp Godenot: I disrespected the medium to begin with, now I see the medium as the main focus of my artistic intentions.

orb Thursday: yes esch

Ludo Merit: The ava s art is relevant for the community, we have more freedom to present ourselves as we are here.

Muzicole Undertone: But is community promoted in SL by the use of avatars rather than 'real' people.

Muzicole Undertone: ?

Alizarin Goldflake: Musicole - we are real here

Gracie Kendal: Cole...I think its both

Scarp Godenot: Community is helped by the erasure of visual prejudice.

Muzicole Undertone: Of course we are

Gracie Kendal: wow...true scarp

Filthy Fluno: nice scarp

Emilie Cryotank: I agree scarp

Scarp Godenot: And ageism

Pi Pooraka: then why aren't we all just big blobs?

Emilie Cryotank: and occasionaly gender

Scarp Godenot: Young middle and old who knows who is who?

Gracie Kendal: I think community is about people gettign together in whatever respect...to socialize...

Emilie Cryotank: we are vain :D

Alizarin Goldflake: Pi - you have a point :)

Gracie Kendal: build..educate...

Gracie Kendal: there is so much to that...

Xerxes Druart: I wonder is the art community here older than the average ?

Ludo Merit: Some of us are bats or devils, hey.

Xerxes Druart: seems to be a few greybeards here (myself included)

Pi Pooraka: i thought a community was for all to help each other

Scarp Godenot: Pi the point is we can be whatever we want and change daily.

Emilie Cryotank: someone should do a poll

Filthy Fluno: patrons are also important part of an arts community

Muzicole Undertone: But how much easier is it to be a community when we are represented as avatars? Especially avs who are designed by ppl like Filthy, who are very aware of the potential of 'the avatar as art'...

Tee Barrs: age is relative

Ludo Merit: True, Filthy

Pi Pooraka: if you change daily...you can't remain a community

Ludo Merit: And it doesn t cost so much to be a p[atron here

Scarp Godenot: Filthy: patrons are definitely necessary. Patrons with cash.

Xerxes Druart: noit that it matters but if you are describing the artistic community in a thesis you need to know who your gfroup is?

Emilie Cryotank: I agree, but the general stats would be an interesting factoid

Filthy Fluno: yes

Filthy Fluno: and patrons with skills

Gracie Kendal: LOl xerxes.... the artists

Gracie Kendal: what do you mean?

orb Thursday: and patrons with prims!

Pi Pooraka: where are the Medicis when you need them

Tee Barrs: i am a poor patron

Tee Barrs: but i enjoy the art

Tee Barrs: wow

Scarp Godenot: and patrons with a desire to promote art and artists

Anton Braendle: No, Xerxes ...it amtters a lot ... she needs a good definition of comunity

Gracie Kendal: LOL there are many art collectors here

Gracie Kendal: as well as writers, poets...etc

Ludo Merit nods

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I disagree Pi, I change a lot buy my community just accepts that as part of who I am. I'm black and featureless, but just today.

Filthy Fluno: Tayzia is a big one here as well as Razi

Scarp Godenot: There are patrons who support whole sims

Esch Snoats: And Sasun

Alizarin Goldflake: gracie i hope we can get the transcript of this whole thing tomorrow because i have to log off now :(

Gracie Kendal: Yes, definitely

Gracie Kendal: sure

Gracie Kendal: Have a great day Alizarin

Alizarin Goldflake: what will be the url for the transcript?

Filthy Fluno: seeya ali

Ludo Merit: Who is the we that gets the transcript?

Filthy Fluno: artropolitans.com

Alizarin Goldflake: hey filthy - nite

Filthy Fluno: yes

Alizarin Goldflake: ty

Ludo Merit: Thanks

Esch Snoats: I hope someone was logging it

Filthy Fluno: please had thm

Esch Snoats: lol we're doing transcripts of art talks now? :D

Alizarin Goldflake: god bless

Filthy Fluno: right wake?

Anton Braendle: She has to be able to provide citations, so yeah!

Gracie Kendal: ugh...froze

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: we are????

Gracie Kendal: Definitely

Filthy Fluno: oy vey

Gracie Kendal: LOL

Filthy Fluno: i thought you were doing that?

Anton Braendle: *grin

Anton Braendle: There's 50 pages ...

Filthy Fluno: what kind of wrinky dink community is ths

Gracie Kendal: LOL yea Anton

quadrapop Lane: always logging chat....

Esch Snoats: One that doesn't believe in chat logs apparently

Anton Braendle: Who's the hsitorina of this group anyway?

Emilie Cryotank: so, how many folks here have had a website before SL? and has being on SL improved your exposure... or whatever it was you were trying to accomplish?

Sky Hye: I have.

Scarp Godenot: Me

Filthy Fluno: stares at the fly on the wall

Anton Braendle: A website? A single website ...LOL

Esch Snoats: lol

Scarp Godenot: I got 6

Filthy Fluno: artropolitans.com

Gracie Kendal: my website came becasue of SL

Sky Hye: Sl hasn't effected anything, that I can see yet.

Tee Barrs: this is only an extension of rl

Esch Snoats: I think she meant art related site

Gracie Kendal: and my portfolio :P

Filthy Fluno: oh

Emilie Cryotank: yes

Sky Hye: But not trying yet, either.

Tee Barrs: just as real

Filthy Fluno: sky

Sky Hye: Yeah?

Filthy Fluno: what do you mean?

Strawberry Holiday: I had a SL website, www.wingedstrawberry.com-- but now I'm at www. strawberryholiday.com

Scarp Godenot: I'm having a SL photography show in RL in a couple of months!

Scarp Godenot: That affects RL

Sky Hye: I haven't tried to make sl work for my rl career yet, Filthy.

Strawberry Holiday: eep a website before SL I mean

Tee Barrs: just as much work

Gracie Kendal: oh wow..Scarp great

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: That's cool Scarp!

Filthy Fluno: nice scarp!

Tee Barrs: hehehhe

Scarp Godenot: The more the merrier!

Filthy Fluno: do us proud

Xerxes Druart: sorry bean away - lunch (did you know of all teh placves in the world Quadrapop and I live a few kms apart! - thats SL too

quadrapop Lane: way to go scarp

quadrapop Lane: lol

quadrapop Lane: try 20ks but yes within meeting distance...

Xerxes Druart: I meant you need to know stats about the artistic community

Xerxes Druart: of course after you define your group

Filthy Fluno: sasun and slart mag

Filthy Fluno: and tayzia

Pi Pooraka: not all art translates from RL to SL well

Filthy Fluno: and me

quadrapop Lane: lol

Anton Braendle: And don't forget DC ...if he'll talk.

Filthy Fluno: yes

Emilie Cryotank: ah, are artists in Sl people who make stuff or are artists folks who make and promote? what is the definition?

Esch Snoats: Well it doesn't have to be a website specific to SL, just one that you made after you joined SL to promote your RL art more, etc

Esch Snoats: Crossovers, etc

Scarp Godenot: When I first got here, I didn't take SL photography seriously. Now I do. There are great possibilities here.

Filthy Fluno: i agree scarp

Anton Braendle: I disagree ...

Gracie Kendal: sorry was afk rl for a sec

Tee Barrs: possibilities r everywhere

Anton Braendle: Sorry ...

Filthy Fluno: the sl snapshot can be an amazing documentary tool

quadrapop Lane: and you need to define what you mean by art in SL - I am doing a series of survey shows... started out with teh visual arts... in 6 mopnths will do the performance and avatar related arts

Tee Barrs: as u share your share will grow

Scarp Godenot: Have you tried it Anton? what is your arguemnt against it.

Anton Braendle: Yes, I've tried it ...

quadrapop Lane: and then 6 months after that a show surveying design and architechture

Filthy Fluno: which can be art when done correct

Anton Braendle: And we don't have time or space for why I disagree here ...

Anton Braendle: We're here to talk about Gracie's thesis

quadrapop Lane: then cycle back tothe beginning as what is possible will have changed

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: an we hold off on SL Photography is /isn't art for now? I promise an ArtTalk on that.

Anton Braendle: Not th history of photography

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Back to Paris and Communitiy

Anton Braendle: Yep ...back to Pairs ...and WHAT was the community?

Anton Braendle: Was it truly a community?

Filthy Fluno: yea

Filthy Fluno: viva paree

Tee Barrs: presentation can take its toll here in sl

Gracie Kendal: LOL

Anton Braendle: Or was it an artificial social gathering

Tee Barrs: tends to cause lag

orb Thursday: la boheme

Pi Pooraka: oui oui, sil vous plait

Scarp Godenot: Maybe we need a 'manifesto' or two....

Filthy Fluno: lol

quadrapop Lane: or a construct of art history....

Gracie Kendal: LOL

Filthy Fluno: talk to DC about manifest

Scarp Godenot: DC scares me....

Filthy Fluno: that guy has them dripping out his nostrils

Anton Braendle: NO we need an understanding of what constitutes a community, is that definition applicable to the environment of SL and further does it pertain to art and artists here

Muzicole Undertone: Can SL be related to the Cafe culture of 1920s Paris that spawned so many artistic collaborations in art and music and literature?

quadrapop Lane: there are definitely SL subcultures

Anton Braendle: I'm glad to hear that DC scares you ...

Emilie Cryotank: yes it was, people loitered at salons, exhanged ideas, had shows & worked together.. of course they argued and fought over theories and ideas as well ...

Filthy Fluno: yea

Gracie Kendal: What do you guys think?> Can we call ourselves a community??

Emilie Cryotank: it wasn't harmonious

Emilie Cryotank: sure

Filthy Fluno: we can't just all congratulate eachother all the time

Xerxes Druart: it seems to me - like all staring art forems the artists are ahead of teh context

orb Thursday: oui!

Filthy Fluno: yes

Muzicole Undertone: Good point Filthy

Xerxes Druart: the critics adn history are still immature

Filthy Fluno: i think there is a core

Emilie Cryotank: I love you all and we should be bestest friends

Filthy Fluno: look

Filthy Fluno: in RL

Filthy Fluno: for 10 years

Gracie Kendal: who are you Emilie?

Xerxes Druart: gracies thesis will be one of the first to try to document what is going on here

Gracie Kendal: LOL

Filthy Fluno: i ran an arts organization

Scarp Godenot: Anton I think your requirements are fulfilled here among those I have met who are engaged in creating new technological art.

Filthy Fluno: and helped build a local arts community

Emilie Cryotank: who am I? An artist, painter

Anton Braendle: Nope ...it's only just starting, Scarp

Gracie Kendal: Im teasing

Filthy Fluno: and its getting there in SL

Tee Barrs: nite all

Emilie Cryotank: ;)

Filthy Fluno: night Tee

Tee Barrs: have a great nite

Gracie Kendal: Bye Tee

Tee Barrs: :)

orb Thursday: ta tee

Filthy Fluno: community is students, artists, educators, patrons, gov't,

Scarp Godenot: Anton says you!

Filthy Fluno: not just peeps making shit

Anton Braendle: Waht are the time parameters of the artitistic community Gracie is describing?

quadrapop Lane: well we have all that here in SL

Gracie Kendal: I dont think there has to be time parameters

Gracie Kendal: Sl moves so fast anyway

Anton Braendle: Err, no, Scarp ... I actuall have some objective data to back me up on this ...

Gracie Kendal: so you cant judge it by time.

Muzicole Undertone: It think there might be something in the fact that 20s Paris was one of the first communities that was self-aware and set out to create AS a community. Is that happening in SL?

Anton Braendle: Yes...there do, Gracie ...

Anton Braendle: That community changed over time ...

Anton Braendle: So dioes this one

Gracie Kendal: ok, in that respect true

Anton Braendle: There was an earlier "artistic" community in Paris, that was very much self aware ...

Anton Braendle: An earlier one, in fact ...

Emilie Cryotank: everything evolves

Sky Hye: I'm wondering how important the critics were in 1919 paris, and do we have important critics in sl who reach the outside world?

Anton Braendle: Its' existence gave rise to the possibility of the one of the 1920's

Anton Braendle: Hehe...dont' tell the creationists, Emilie!

Gracie Kendal: the Impressionistera?

Anton Braendle: Yep ...

Emilie Cryotank: hey, i'm all about the flying spagetti monster

Anton Braendle: Paris, 1920 as you describe it wouldn't have been possible without them

Pi Pooraka: hail to the flying spaghetti monster

Anton Braendle: Right on Emilie!

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Ok Folks, this is your moderator speaking................. time is up .......... feel free to stay as long as you wish, no problems there but what Gracie, as the guest, is doing is hard work, Don't be mad if she needs to leave. She can stay also, obviously.

Scarp Godenot: Critics and historians sort out what happened later. This is a community. We are inspired to create new things. It can't as yet be done elsewhere.

Anton Braendle: All hail spaghetti!

Esch Snoats: Thanks Gracie for doing this

Sparkling Saintlouis: Good luck, Gracie!

Filthy Fluno: hey wake

Gracie Kendal: Thanks for listening :))

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Thanks Gracie!!!!!!!

Filthy Fluno: do you have transcripts from previous talks?

Anton Braendle: Good night, Gracie!

orb Thursday: thank you gracie....

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: we'lle meet here next week, same time

Gracie Kendal: and adding comments suggestions etc :))

Sky Hye: Thanks Gracie, and Wake!

Gracie Kendal: Thank you Anton :))

Muzicole Undertone: I'm really informed by a cursory knowledge of a group of composers who were in Paris in the 20s... I'm not an artist, I'm a musician... But something does seem to have happened in Paris in the 20s that had not happened before.

Xerxes Druart: yes good choice Gracie - of Thesis topic

Filthy Fluno: thanks Gracie!

Emilie Cryotank: thanks! this was really interesting

Xerxes Druart: gotta get writing though LOL

Gracie Kendal: LOL thx X :))

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: to walk through and discuss the collaboration that SHerpa Voyager have been working on, Political is Personal. A Field Trip!

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: We both hope to see you all here for that.

Scarp Godenot: Aren't we just getting going? let's not spot yet....

Esch Snoats: Also everyone we now have the Art Talk schedule posted on the events board out front here

Esch Snoats: as well as have the schedule up on the website

Gracie Kendal: Thanks so much Wake as always :))

orb Thursday: thanks again gracie...night ya'll

quadrapop Lane: Gracie... I'd like to talk to you later...

orb Thursday: :)

Filthy Fluno: night ORB!!

quadrapop Lane: :-)

Ludo Merit: I am very interested in this thesis, with its focus on the community and with my ancient Sociology degree.

Filthy Fluno: that orb is one hot mamma

Gracie Kendal: thx so much LUdo :))

Emilie Cryotank: heh!

Xerxes Druart: I seriously need to go get lunch.....and do some work LOL

Xerxes Druart: bye Gracie

Scarp Godenot: So, Gracie: Does a community need a focus of similar goals to be a community? I'm leaning towards saying no.

Ludo Merit: Thanks, Gracie

Gracie Kendal: thx for coming X :)) We'll talk later on :))

quadrapop Lane: bye garcie - I'll read the logs of the bits i missed

Gracie Kendal: no, i dont think so

Anton Braendle: Gah! It's part of what DEFINES a community ...

Gracie Kendal: lolol

Xerxes Druart: I'll be back with a sandwhich ;-)

quadrapop Lane: hehe shared values amkes a community

Anton Braendle: You can't just make up a definition out of thin air ...look at your pprecedents ...

Emilie Cryotank: I'd say no, a community is just made up of people

Scarp Godenot: Gah! According to you!

Emilie Cryotank: shared ornot shared

Scarp Godenot: Communities form without somebody's set of rules.

Anton Braendle: NO, according to sociologist, anthriopologist, art historians ...

Filthy Fluno: yes.. but rules can help

Filthy Fluno: i almost think they are crucial

Emilie Cryotank: groups form out of shared ideas, not communities

Anton Braendle: They may "form" spontaneously ...but there are reasons, as human creatures tht this happens ...

quadrapop Lane: dictuionary.com

Anton Braendle: Did ytoiu think it was magic?

quadrapop Lane: 1. a social group of any size whose members reside in a specific locality, share government, and often have a common cultural and historical heritage. 2. a locality inhabited by such a group. 3. a social, religious, occupational, or other group sharing common characteristics or interests and perceived or perceiving itself as distinct in some respect from the larger society within which it exists (usually prec. by the): the business community; the community of scholars. 4. a group of associated nations sharing common interests or a common heritage: the community of Western Europe. 5. Ecclesiastical. a group of men or women leading a common life according to a rule. 6. Ecology. an assemblage of interacting populations occupying a given area. 7. joint possession, enjoyment, liability, etc.: community of property. 8. similar character; agreement; identity: community of interests. 9. the community, the public; society: the needs of the community.

Scarp Godenot: We don't need rules here..... obviously.

Filthy Fluno: oy vey

Emilie Cryotank: dictionary ninja

Anton Braendle: Thank you quad ...

quadrapop Lane: have a dictionary definition

Esch Snoats: lol

Arcturus Itano: lol

quadrapop Lane: hey I always started there when writing essays...

Scarp Godenot: definition does not equal rules

quadrapop Lane: damn philiosphy essays

Anton Braendle: Oy ...

Filthy Fluno: dictionary shmictionary

Gracie Kendal: LOL

Emilie Cryotank: who says there has to be rules?

quadrapop Lane: thnx filthy

Anton Braendle: It's thesis ...

Filthy Fluno: i say there has to be rules

Scarp Godenot: Anton does

Filthy Fluno: me

Filthy Fluno: this guy

Anton Braendle: It means that there are certain things that must be in there ...

Esch Snoats: lol

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I gotta run folks, my installation which I just invited you all to, isn't quite finished yet...

Emilie Cryotank: thesis is theory, not a rule book

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Was fun, thanks all and Thanks Gracie!

Anton Braendle: I haven't sadi a word about "rules" ...

Gracie Kendal: LOL Wake...see you soon :))

Esch Snoats: I need to go take off and get stuff done. Night everyone! Thanks for coming

Filthy Fluno: community needs rules

Ludo Merit: A community is something that acts like a community

Sky Hye: By Wake.

Filthy Fluno: by wake

Sky Hye: Bye, I mean

PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: bye!!!!!!

Gracie Kendal: thx Esch :)) see you soon :))

Pi Pooraka: nite wake

Scarp Godenot: Ludo, that is all you need

Anton Braendle: Bye, Wake