February 11, 2008
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: ok, it is time to begin
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Welcome to Art Talk folks.
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I see some old faces and some new ones
JueL Resistance: Hey! filthy!
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: For the new ones, Art Talk is a casual free form discussion of Art. I try to have a topic,
Filthy Fluno: hi hi
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: sometimes I have a guest.
JueL Resistance: ok wake :)
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: No guest today but we do have a topic, What is Art?
Sky Hye: Hi Filthy!
JueL Resistance: oooo
Filthy Fluno: hey hey sky
Filthy Fluno: good to meet you
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: This topic always comes up so I've made a whole 4 weeks of it. Today is just generic What is Art
Sky Hye: Hmm!!!???
JueL Resistance: art is emotion
JueL Resistance: pent up dwelling emotion
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Next we have Meaning vs Appearance, then is SL Photography Art with our very own Scarp.
JueL Resistance: comes out in colors, shapes
quadrapop Lane: big topic
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: And I forget the 4th week....
JueL Resistance: :) Ok
Filthy Fluno: is my afro art
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: So, go at it folks!
JueL Resistance: lol filthy
Filthy Fluno: ok
Sky Hye: Ack!!!
Filthy Fluno: art is emotion
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: He's serious
Filthy Fluno: but emotion is not art
quadrapop Lane: if you say so Filthy....
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: about the 'fro
Scarp Godenot: Art is an object or concept that has no other practical use besides its transfer of meaning.
Filthy Fluno: i like that one scarp
quadrapop Lane: hmmmm
JueL Resistance: no emotion is not art
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: a billboard is then art, no?
Eldrichk Farman: So language could be called "art".
JueL Resistance: art is emotion though
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: a checkbook, art?
quadrapop Lane: so a beautiful building is not art?
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: opps, missed practical, sorry.
Chatto Tomsen: emotion is something that might motivate the production of art
Esch Snoats: Yo peeps
Filthy Fluno: a checkbook can be art
JueL Resistance: ok art like i said earlier is in the EYE of the bholder
JueL Resistance: beholder
Scarp Godenot: billboard has practical use
Sky Hye: Hi Esch!
Filthy Fluno: hey esch
Filthy Fluno: how about this
Cutter Randt: Edlrichk...I hope so,....since I'm a writer....
JueL Resistance: Taht is art too quad
Filthy Fluno: let's go around the room
Filthy Fluno: k?
Chatto Tomsen: it motivates the artists desire to be understood
JueL Resistance: it is in the eye....of the LOOKER UPONER
JueL Resistance: ok filthy
JueL Resistance: you start
Filthy Fluno: k
quadrapop Lane: not all billboards are practicle
JueL Resistance: to your left of right
Cutter Randt: good idea Filthy...round robin
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Filthy fir,st then clockwise from above
quadrapop Lane: look at teh ones Banksy put things on...
JueL Resistance: Hooo!
Filthy Fluno: k
JueL Resistance: hi esch :)
Filthy Fluno: art makes me feel different about an object or idea. different than i did before I considered it
RAG Randt: hey all
JueL Resistance: hi rag :)
Filthy Fluno: hey rag
Esch Snoats: Yo Rag
Scarp Godenot: Hey rag
Filthy Fluno: we're going around the room
JueL Resistance listens
Filthy Fluno: defining what we think is art
RAG Randt: no voice tonight -)
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: nope, no voice at Art Talk.
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Wake is a Luddite
Filthy Fluno: k
Filthy Fluno: so
Chatto Tomsen: I'll second that no voice thing
Filthy Fluno: fine
quadrapop Lane: is easier to document when no voice
JueL Resistance: keepe goin filthy this is good
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: yes, stay on target
Filthy Fluno: art can be made out of anything and does NOT require the ability to build something
JueL Resistance: i agree
Filthy Fluno: i think that art needs to be made with the intention of making art.. or something artsy fartsy
JueL Resistance: /can i add?
Scarp Godenot: I like the intention part...
Chatto Tomsen: pre meditated art
JueL Resistance: i think art is Unintentional also
Filthy Fluno: yea
Filthy Fluno: how is it unintentional juel
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: yes juel, how?
JueL Resistance: /well, when i paint.......i have no intention...same with songwriting.......what i feel
Scarp Godenot: The person calling it art is the only one that can make unintentional things art, therefore it is their artistic creation.
JueL Resistance: is what comes out
Cutter Randt: oooh Pizza!
Filthy Fluno: yes
Filthy Fluno: juel
JueL Resistance: /it is a way of expressing wha ti feel
Filthy Fluno: but you are using artmaking tools
JueL Resistance: /not for all, but for me.
Slice of Pizza whispers: Yummy, Good Pizza!
JueL Resistance: /but if anything is art then
JueL Resistance: waht are tools
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: but that is intentional, even if it didn't start that way
Chatto Tomsen: art involves a licence
JueL Resistance: /it comes thru me
JueL Resistance: not from me
JueL Resistance: i am more like a vessel
Filthy Fluno: how about this.. one person defines art, then fields questions on it
JueL Resistance: i think most of us are
Filthy Fluno: then we move on
Esch Snoats: lol but "defining" art is like a dog chasing his tail :P
JueL Resistance: right esch
Filthy Fluno: i don't think so
JueL Resistance: it is in the EYE of the LOOKER UPONER lol
JueL Resistance: Filthy
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I'
Cutter Randt: I think that would be a good idea....its too much to have everyon jabberingin...but I'm also sitting on my hands trying to not ot interrrupt
JueL Resistance: ....remember when we lokoed at each others art?
JueL Resistance: we saw what we didn't intend to put in there.
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I've always seen it in the eye of the creator, not the viewer
Scarp Godenot: eye of the beholder is regarding good art vs bad art, not what is art.
JueL Resistance: intend....intentional
Filthy Fluno: yes juel
Filthy Fluno: but still
JueL Resistance: we do not intend
Filthy Fluno: i was looking at painting
Filthy Fluno: we do intend
Filthy Fluno: tomake a painting
JueL Resistance: i see something diff then what you may have t hought of
RAG Randt: yes
JueL Resistance: My Firedance man
Esch Snoats: But that's a good thing Juel
JueL Resistance: that is a brush slobber
RAG Randt: that is iit juel
JueL Resistance: it was not intentional
JueL Resistance: but when i looked at it
JueL Resistance: i saw man dancing in flames
Filthy Fluno: ok.. but
Scarp Godenot: The recognition of the accident is the artistic creation moment.
JueL Resistance: i did not do it, it went thru me, i painted waht i felt....felt
Filthy Fluno: as soon as you go grab your brush and dip it in paint
quadrapop Lane: drawing is about drawing stuff out of your environment is how found art happens
Filthy Fluno: you are embarking on the path of making art
Filthy Fluno: regardless of what the imagery is
JueL Resistance: right
RAG Randt: yes
JueL Resistance: But there is not an intention in the outcome
quadrapop Lane: drawing doesn't only happen with pen and pare
JueL Resistance: for me anyway, not for all
JueL Resistance: if i try, i fail
Filthy Fluno: k
JueL Resistance: if i just let it flow, something happens
quadrapop Lane: there is when you present it as art
Filthy Fluno: let's go to the next person
Chatto Tomsen: agree + quad
Cutter Randt: if "art" is in the eye of the "looker uponer" the ar tis uninttional because looking / awareness isn't an option
Scarp Godenot: Intention is presenting the piece as an artwork to others.
Esch Snoats: Yo Emilie
JueL Resistance: yeah like that scarp....i need to processs lol
Emilie Cryotank: evening folks!
JueL Resistance: hi emilie
Filthy Fluno: hi emilie
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Welcome
Filthy Fluno: have a shit
Scarp Godenot: hi em
Eldrichk Farman: have a what now?
JueL Resistance: /haaa
quadrapop Lane: lol
Filthy Fluno: so who's next
JueL Resistance: lol
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Ok, who wants to go next? The clockface says Sky
Filthy Fluno: sit
JueL Resistance: sky
Sky Hye: Art reaches the emotions, bypassing or rising above simple practical activity or creation. It can be something that conveys feelings or urges or reactions in some non direct manner. Making it feels like crafting emotion.
Filthy Fluno: yes sky
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: nice
Filthy Fluno: need to reread that
JueL Resistance: ahhh
JueL Resistance: crafting emotion
Sky Hye: Well, hi there, Emilie!
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I see a common point, art evokes emotion
quadrapop Lane: eotional respeonce
Eldrichk Farman: I may have to go soon. have a good discussion, guys. Keep it civil...and keep it PG
JueL Resistance: every artisit i believe has their own style
Scarp Godenot: hmmm can you have art without emotion? good question.
Emilie Cryotank: woops didn't see you there
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: bye Eld!
Filthy Fluno: lol
Emilie Cryotank: <- ressing
Emilie Cryotank: rezzing even
JueL Resistance: yeah Wake it evokes emotiona also
Chatto Tomsen: kk Eldrichk
quadrapop Lane: hehe formalists/
JueL Resistance: becaue it is emotional
Filthy Fluno: seeya eld
Filthy Fluno: ok
Filthy Fluno: let's bring it back in peeps
JueL Resistance: it's US expressing
Cutter Randt: q for sky (and everyone really)...is it enough to define art by what it does? I think maybe but I'm not sure....
Sky Hye: Yes?
quadrapop Lane: making art uyes but how about viewing?
Scarp Godenot: Expressing intellect without emotion can be art?
JueL Resistance: what it does for YOU, i think is ultimate
JueL Resistance: an artist expressses emotion thru art...whatever form
Chatto Tomsen: perhaps art is a place with no distincition necesarry between thought and emotion
quadrapop Lane: how about cultures that have no concept of "art" with a capital A?
JueL Resistance: a viewer sees it for how it triggers THIER own emotions
Sky Hye: Some feel a charge by having their intellect stimulated. That might be evocation of emotion.
Scarp Godenot: What is the emotion of a stainless steel cube?
Filthy Fluno: like Bali?
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: So chatto, Art has thought behind it? (I agree BTW)
quadrapop Lane: yes and Austrlian Aboriginals (at least till white men came)
Cutter Randt: if we dfint are by what it does...for ecample "invoking emotion" then is a leaf on tree art? and tif so then is the tree an artist?
Scarp Godenot: Formalist intellectual notions are also art and not dealing with emotion.
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: or a soup can, painted?
JueL Resistance: yeah i look for the 'feel'
JueL Resistance: eithe ri connect or not.
Filthy Fluno: no cutter
Filthy Fluno: it is not
Emilie Cryotank: some art isn't about emotion, it's about the idea (color, shape, exploration of media, etc)
Chatto Tomsen: art must have no physical utilitarian function
Filthy Fluno: what about a ceramic pot?
JueL Resistance: i could connect to a painted soup can, i thinkw we've all done those things LOL
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: oooo, "must"?
Scarp Godenot: Chatto, that is a necessary part I think.
quadrapop Lane: or it becomes design Cutter?
Chatto Tomsen: if it does then it's a tool
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: hmmmm,, chatto, must think on that
Chatto Tomsen: and therefore craft
Filthy Fluno: ok
JueL Resistance: but...art is ULTIMATLY DEFINED but how one views it..unless no one ever sees it
Filthy Fluno: so art is never a tool
Cutter Randt: filthy...okay...then we need to say more about art besides that it iinvokes emotion.....
Scarp Godenot: Design can be art if it is not utilitarian.
JueL Resistance: everyone may see omething diff
JueL Resistance: and that is the beauty of it
Chatto Tomsen: not serious art Proper
Emilie Cryotank: but what if it is, and the function is part of the art?
RAG Randt: art can\\\\\
Cutter Randt: at with a capital A needs to be stepped on....imo
quadrapop Lane: hehe
Filthy Fluno: sky?
JueL Resistance: i believe it..that art is in the EYE of the 'looker uponder' the beholder
Sky Hye: Yes?
Chatto Tomsen: it's a big cockroach cutter
Filthy Fluno: bring us back to your point
Scarp Godenot: Emilie, is there a distintion between art and craft?
Sky Hye: Which part?
Filthy Fluno: you chose
Scarp Godenot: Does art have to involve creativity?
JueL Resistance: whageer you feel as a LOOKER, is part of you or something that evokes a feeling or thought
Cutter Randt: hehe yes Chatoo...(A)rt is a big cockroach existing as a parasite on human culture
Emilie Cryotank: not really, there is now but there didn't used to be, historically speaking
JueL Resistance: AMEN
Filthy Fluno: ok.. sky youdone?
Sky Hye: Oh!
JueL Resistance: cockroach thing, i like lol
Scarp Godenot: What about copying type of crafts, is that art?
Chatto Tomsen: perhaps in million years toby jugs will be considered the height of our achievment
JueL Resistance: copying or making it yours? in your own way?
Sky Hye: I guess I see no need to argue, I was answering questions if they came to me. :)
Filthy Fluno: yes peeps
Filthy Fluno: try to get your questions to the person
Filthy Fluno: other than that
Scarp Godenot: I HATE the appropriationists!!!!!
Emilie Cryotank: if duplication is part of the concept, then perhaps
Filthy Fluno: please waite
Filthy Fluno: so emilie
Filthy Fluno: what's your definition of art
JueL Resistance: ok emilie...lol, i like your thoughts
Cutter Randt smiles proudly. "I can talk sh*t about (A)art all night...lol"
Emilie Cryotank: are limited (or unlimited) edition prints art?
JueL Resistance: lol cutter
Filthy Fluno: good cutter
Chatto Tomsen: LOL
Filthy Fluno: welcome to the club
Filthy Fluno: :)
JueL Resistance: that's exactly it.
Scarp Godenot: Emilie, editions are art, yes.
quadrapop Lane: :-)
Filthy Fluno: emilie
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: yes, art can be reproduced
Filthy Fluno: what's your definition of art
Esch Snoats: we're talking about art as art, not limiteds or anything like that
Scarp Godenot: are mass production ceramics art?
JueL Resistance: art....is just that....art
JueL Resistance: many things
JueL Resistance: many forms
JueL Resistance: many emotions
Scarp Godenot: The original probably was art.
JueL Resistance: or lack of
Filthy Fluno: ok.. we're losing structure
quadrapop Lane: the mass can be - depends on context
Emilie Cryotank: crap if it isn't relative... it's part craft/skill, part concept/idea, part design....
Scarp Godenot: structure? wha?
Filthy Fluno: let's go around the room
Filthy Fluno: each person
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I don't mind the loss of structure Filthy, chaos is good
Filthy Fluno: define art
Filthy Fluno: then people ask that person
JueL Resistance: ok
Emilie Cryotank: there is lots of art, anyone can do it, but then there's art then there is good art
Filthy Fluno: yea.. but
Scarp Godenot: Good and bad art is a different discusssion;
Filthy Fluno: ok.. well.. this is my reommendation
Filthy Fluno: if its gonna fly away
Filthy Fluno: so bei it
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: s'ok...
Emilie Cryotank: hah, well we were just asking what art was
Filthy Fluno: i won't say it again
quadrapop Lane: so Emile what makes the art made - art?
Emilie Cryotank: art made art?
Emilie Cryotank: ah what makest it art
Emilie Cryotank: intent,
quadrapop Lane: quiting you: there is lots of art, anyone can do it
quadrapop Lane: and what does that intent have to be for it to be art?
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: intent, yes!
Chatto Tomsen: I know people who can't make art
Filthy Fluno: thank god for that chatto
Chatto Tomsen: LOL
Emilie Cryotank: it can be anything, beauty or ugly, present an idea or be confrontational
Filthy Fluno: lol
quadrapop Lane: (aside - I have art history degree and did this sort of thing for 8 years 20 years ago,....)
JueL Resistance: right, yeah
JueL Resistance: anything
JueL Resistance: eye of the looker
Chatto Tomsen: poor quad :-(
Cutter Randt: when you say "intent" are you meaning somethign like "conciouslnes" or "awareness"?
quadrapop Lane: no Juel we are talking about theatual intent...
JueL Resistance: i can see beauty in a dead rat if i'm in the freame of mind
JueL Resistance: i could take a photo and iwth the right light, it's art
Emilie Cryotank: well, I can make an ashtray, purely funtional to hold ashes
quadrapop Lane: ty hatto
Chatto Tomsen: XD
JueL Resistance: a sandgrain can be art
Emilie Cryotank: OR I can make an ashtray that sets up a comment about smoking be it positive or negative
JueL Resistance: in the eye of the taker
JueL Resistance: not hte looker
Emilie Cryotank: one is not art, other is
JueL Resistance: the lookre might jjst see sand
Filthy Fluno: a sandgrain can be art if its put inthe right context
Chatto Tomsen: good point Emilie
JueL Resistance: but to YOU it might be art
Cutter Randt: is intent somethign like "this thing is made and I meade it so people can see it"?
JueL Resistance: to another it might be 'sand
Scarp Godenot: 1)perceivable experience of some sort 2)intent to call it art 3) non utilitarian.
JueL Resistance: eye of hte looker
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: So emile, art is in the eye of the creator then, not the looker?
Chatto Tomsen: yet they are both ashtrays
JueL Resistance: i could see beauty
JueL Resistance: someone else might see a grain of sand
JueL Resistance: and think it HURTS IN MY ASSS
JueL Resistance: and not like it
Emilie Cryotank: I watched a review of this guy's show, the whole thing was a naked guy in a gray room -w- happy b-day painting on the wall with a red dot
Emilie Cryotank: he said there were 5 pieces there, one purely conceptual
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: or maybe it was crap?
Scarp Godenot: Crap art is still art
Emilie Cryotank: now i know if any random person went into that room, they're just gonna see a gray room --w- a naked man
JueL Resistance: yeah
Emilie Cryotank: they're not going to graps the whole business unless they have prior knowlege
Filthy Fluno: emilie
Sky Hye: I'm bored.
Emilie Cryotank: is that art?
JueL Resistance: or a naked man in a grey room
JueL Resistance: lol
Filthy Fluno: sorry sky
Emilie Cryotank: k I'll shut up then
Scarp Godenot: Get with the program Sky!
Chatto Tomsen: LOL @ Skye
Sky Hye: Heh
quadrapop Lane: poor sky
Sky Hye: Boo hoo
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Esch, your up next....
quadrapop Lane hates being bored
Esch Snoats: ok....
Chatto Tomsen: Chatto is never bored- he lives in his head
quadrapop Lane: hehe
Esch Snoats: First off, art is irrational, because it envokes a different response from every single person who views it. Secondly, art will always be a communication device, regardless if there's a "message" in the piece or not. To give an example of my own stuff. I purposely don't feed what the piece is about to the viewer, because I want to hear what they think it is. I want the art to be a 2 way communication device, not just something with me saying "here's my piece, here's my message (bang over head with hammer)"
Esch Snoats: doh hit CTRL-H
Chatto Tomsen: Some people need the insturctions
quadrapop Lane: good one esh
JueL Resistance: OOO yeah
Chatto Tomsen: instructions
Filthy Fluno: loves esch
Esch Snoats: Some people may need the instructions, but that's fine, because not everyone gets art just as much as not everyone calls art as art
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I've uput out instructions with some of my pieces, but that just meant I thought I had failed somewhat.
Chatto Tomsen: true
Cutter Randt: I think calling art a "communication device" connects with the intentionality idea of art
JueL Resistance: wow wake
Filthy Fluno: agreed
Filthy Fluno: esch
Filthy Fluno: question for you
Esch Snoats: Also with this 2 way interaction that I've established with my own work, I've grown to appreciate my art in a different way as well.
Scarp Godenot: The communication is sometimes: "this is art" so the communication part is sometimes the intention to communicate.
JueL Resistance: or unintentional idea of communicating
Filthy Fluno: Since you pretty much built all of Artropolis.. and this Mandelbrats venue.. do you think that what we are doing right now is art within your art?
Sky Hye: Ha!
quadrapop Lane: lol
Esch Snoats: Well even if you give instructions about what your art is about Juel, there will still be people out there who will unintentionally think it's something else. You can't avoid it
Filthy Fluno: still bored Sky?
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: or is it just yammering?
Sky Hye: That's not boring!
Scarp Godenot: Bulls**t about art is art, man.
JueL Resistance: right
JueL Resistance: exactly
JueL Resistance: it' in the eye of those who view it
Chatto Tomsen: you know art when you see it
Filthy Fluno: i think we're lagging here
Esch Snoats: Filth: No, I more think like the old man with the shot gun on the porch "Get out of my yard ya damn kids!"
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: lag makes it fun
quadrapop Lane: or hear it?
JueL Resistance: you feel art when you see it....?....hmmm
Filthy Fluno: lol
Chatto Tomsen: or have it presented to you in a museum
JueL Resistance: right quad or hear it
Scarp Godenot: Chatto, you know art when somebody else tells you to see it too.
Chatto Tomsen: without the cigarettes
Filthy Fluno: do you consider Artropolis artwork?
JueL Resistance: lol
Cutter Randt: lol scarp
quadrapop Lane: good question filthy
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Ididn't use to but I do now
JueL Resistance: i certinaly consider this all art
JueL Resistance: art in nature in a sense
Sky Hye: Is architecture art, Filthy?
Filthy Fluno: yes
JueL Resistance: oo hell yeah
Sky Hye: There you go
Filthy Fluno: i'm asking esch
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: ooo, there goes the "pracitcal" part
Esch Snoats: I went to the art museum in my town and they had on a wall 2 nails hammered halfway in, and a wire connecting both nails. And it had a plaque with an artist name and the title of the piece.
Chatto Tomsen: sometimes they fail
Sky Hye: Esch?
quadrapop Lane: creativity expressed perhaps?
Filthy Fluno: he's the creator
JueL Resistance: OO yeah cool
Scarp Godenot: Is it his intention for Artopolis to be an art object?
Sky Hye: I know, please Esch...
JueL Resistance: see i would like that...but not everyone would
Sky Hye: answer Filthy's question
Filthy Fluno: no
JueL Resistance: if we are made of the universe, is not art made of artistss?
Filthy Fluno: it was not my intention
Sky Hye: no?
Esch Snoats: Yeah if it's built well Filth, sure. I tihnk that's why Artropolis looks the way it does because I had an artist view of it. It's not just thrown together, there's a purpose, a message with the sim to convey to people.
Filthy Fluno: ok cool
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: what's that message?
quadrapop Lane: yes I agree Esh...
Filthy Fluno: come.. eat bratwurst and meet artists
JueL Resistance: lol
quadrapop Lane: lol
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: actually, that's pretty good, very accurate
Scarp Godenot: Where's the bratwurst?
Chatto Tomsen: it's a good thing there are no digital mozzies
JueL Resistance: meat artists
Filthy Fluno: at the bar
Scarp Godenot: ha ha
Filthy Fluno: lol meat
quadrapop Lane: on the pizza....
JueL Resistance: lol
Esch Snoats: Ok for the most part when you create a piece of art, you put some thought into it, you do the pre-production process on what your goals are. That's exactly what I did with Artropolis
quadrapop Lane nods
Esch Snoats: I didn't just slap stuff together. The goal for Artropolis was to showcase artists, so that was what I did, and added the tropical/ruins part just like you would paint
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: thanks!
JueL Resistance: :)!
Chatto Tomsen: it's a frame
Esch Snoats: Exatly Chatto
JueL Resistance: we get to be creative with what we have
JueL Resistance: ame as art
Chatto Tomsen: XD
JueL Resistance: we are creative with what we have
JueL Resistance: the artist are the art
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Esch, done? Ready for Juel?
Esch Snoats: I was waiting to see if Scarp had anything else to say
Scarp Godenot: Do all creative acts result in art?
JueL Resistance: lol
JueL Resistance: hmmmm
Filthy Fluno: scarp always has more
Scarp Godenot: I'm full of it!
Esch Snoats: I don't believe so Scarp because that's where craft comes in. You can have hte best idea in paper, but if you don't know how to execute it properly, then it just falls apart
quadrapop Lane nods
Filthy Fluno: ok ok
Chatto Tomsen: and we all know that feeling
Scarp Godenot: Esch, isn't that a discussion of good art vs bad art?
Filthy Fluno: fire away juel
quadrapop Lane: raft as in raftsmanship = skills
Filthy Fluno: let's not go there scarp
Filthy Fluno: good art bad art
Scarp Godenot: ha ha
Filthy Fluno: not tonight
JueL Resistance: /all of these Lines across my face, tell you the story of who i am (brandi carlile).......the stories mean not hing if you got no one to tell them to.....art......art........i believe that it is in the eye of the beholder...what we see...in ourselves is
quadrapop Lane: hmmm c not working well here
Esch Snoats: I don't believe so, because they go hand and hand.
JueL Resistance: pat of who we are, expressed in anyway, thru a build
JueL Resistance: thru a song
JueL Resistance: thru paint, ink, oil anything
Esch Snoats: Right, art is also expression. Art is -not- emotion because that is something brought on by the viewer
Esch Snoats: not the art
quadrapop Lane: brb
Chatto Tomsen: k
JueL Resistance: i belive art is MY Emotion coming out
JueL Resistance: it is diff for every artist
JueL Resistance: i feel my art
JueL Resistance: i paint, draw, sing, write my art
JueL Resistance: my experssion, creativ exprssion
JueL Resistance: excuse my spelling
Scarp Godenot: Tolstoy's theory of art was that it had to be some form of communication.
Esch Snoats: Yes but people see art as being emotional based on their own experiences. I will not look at a piece the same way if I didn't go through what the piece was conveying
JueL Resistance: i believe it's pent upsoul
JueL Resistance: pent up soul
quadrapop Lane: bak
JueL Resistance: right, they LOOK at it...how they connect
JueL Resistance: what they see
JueL Resistance: the message THEY get from it
JueL Resistance: we mi ght paintfire
Chatto Tomsen: Art is anything that happens in France
JueL Resistance: they might see water
quadrapop Lane: loll cchatto
JueL Resistance: like you said Esh
Chatto Tomsen: XD
JueL Resistance: esch
JueL Resistance: what you intend...you do not tell
JueL Resistance: cuz you want
JueL Resistance: their perspective
Esch Snoats: Yeah
JueL Resistance: it grows us
Esch Snoats: And me too
JueL Resistance: :)
JueL Resistance: lol
JueL Resistance: amen
Filthy Fluno: hell yea
Esch Snoats: My art would be boring to me once I was done with it if I didn't hear other peoples interpretations
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: comments / questinos for Juel?
Filthy Fluno: interesting esch
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I love interacting with people who've seen my work, just love it.
Filthy Fluno: incoming artist
quadrapop Lane: Juel would your art continue to be art once you are dead? given you define it in context of your personal expression?
Esch Snoats: Well I think that happens to any artist Filth. You've worked on a piece for so long you lose perspective on it, want it done, etc
quadrapop Lane: you too esch....
JueL Resistance: yes quad
Esch Snoats: Hearing what others interpre your work as re-energizes you
quadrapop Lane: agree Esch
JueL Resistance: cuz it is in the eye of the looker uponer
Filthy Fluno: omg
Filthy Fluno: i asked that question like 5 mins ago
JueL Resistance: when i die and passson
JueL Resistance: my energy is in my art
JueL Resistance: however people interpret it
JueL Resistance: i'll write my stories one day
JueL Resistance: i paint when i'm angry.
JueL Resistance: lol
quadrapop Lane: do people see anger in your aintings?
JueL Resistance: some do
quadrapop Lane: Paintings
JueL Resistance: some do not
JueL Resistance: i have a piece i call anger
JueL Resistance: people love it
JueL Resistance: i hate it
Esch Snoats: What I like to think is that if my art made its way around after I died, that a lot of pieces will have people scratching their head going "Wtf" because they can't bounce ideas off of me :D
Esch Snoats: And that's fine with me :P
JueL Resistance: cuz i scratched it with my fingernails
quadrapop Lane: good answer Esch
Esch Snoats: Yeah there's that too Juel. I've brought pieces in SL that I didn't think were that great and they end up being the biggest sellers
JueL Resistance: yeah
Chatto Tomsen: ah that's where you notebooks come in Esch
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: notebooks? How does that work?
quadrapop Lane: hehe and the commentary pf your critics an biographers
Esch Snoats: Notebooks? Nah, I rather give the viewer the gift of not knowing my original intention with my pieces just to keep their brains going
Chatto Tomsen: they wind up in the archives for future art historians to read
quadrapop Lane: lol
quadrapop Lane: unless esch burns them....
Esch Snoats: well.. it is cold outside
quadrapop Lane: lol
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Quad, I think you're up next
Esch Snoats: I'm done, thanks :)
quadrapop Lane: Art exists as a method for the communication of various forms of experience, be that emotional, intellectual, spiritual, political or conceptual. This occurs within a cultural environment. This communication takes the form of expression, physically and conceptually, of relationships of physical and/or conceptual objects, at one or more conceptual levels. Artistic expression is the result of intuitive invention undertaken with a sense of exploration, even of play, and a desire to communicate some concept or experience to others through a physical medium.
quadrapop Lane: lol
quadrapop Lane: that is quoeted fomr my what is art blog....
Sky Hye: How come definitions of art are not as exciting as art, itself?
Chatto Tomsen: whoa
Scarp Godenot: Pretty good one quadra
quadrapop Lane: rofl Sky
Sky Hye: definitions are not art
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: desire to communicate, so "just pretty" doesn't cut it?
quadrapop Lane: thought about it fro a few years Scarp;-)
Esch Snoats: heh
JueL Resistance: /i paint when i'm angry. i write when i't rains or snow. to me it's also....environmental.......what is goiing on around YOU when you paint, write, draw, sketch, sculpt...create
Scarp Godenot: Intent again.
Scarp Godenot: Intent to communicate
Sky Hye: What if we could make an artistic definition of art?
quadrapop Lane: if your intenton is to communicate pretty it does count wake
JueL Resistance: commincate...express?
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Oh, I agree, totally, just asking.
Sky Hye: sorry, I'll be quiet now
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I think intent is crucial
Cutter Randt: what if you intentino is to make a buck?
Cutter Randt: what if you intentino is to make a buck?
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: np Sky, it is refreshing.
Scarp Godenot: Point to, make aware of, as well.
Sky Hye: hehe
JueL Resistance: i think you can feel that or have LACK of feeling when seeing the intention of only making money
Esch Snoats: Well then craft comes in once again Cutter. If your intent is to make money but your craft skills suck, you won't sell :D
quadrapop Lane: that is true Esch
Cutter Randt: hmm...okay but it is still art...
JueL Resistance: i belive if you FEEL IT you can do anything
quadrapop Lane: yes...
JueL Resistance: but you gotta feel
Esch Snoats: Yeah, artist emotion has to be there
Esch Snoats: otherwise it's a drone making the art
JueL Resistance: that's why colors are so imp
JueL Resistance: to an artist
JueL Resistance: they paint their emotion thru color
JueL Resistance: shape
JueL Resistance: words
JueL Resistance: etc
quadrapop Lane: so what about a computer that makes images - there are some out there
Chatto Tomsen: art can be a drone ... Morandi anyone?
Cutter Randt: what if I work as a housepainter...and I'm painting a yellow kitchen with colors the homeowner chose....but as I roll the paint on I hope they can tell how much I hate my job?
quadrapop Lane: hehe
JueL Resistance: taht pizza wouldn' tlok as good all together
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I'm not certain of that, must have emotion, but I'm not sure I want to argue it, since I'm not at all certain
JueL Resistance: that one slice OUT THERE give the invite
Esch Snoats: Heya Dancer
JueL Resistance: to come in
JueL Resistance: take
JueL Resistance: eat
JueL Resistance: enjoy
Dancer Zhangsun: hey
JueL Resistance: satisfy
Scarp Godenot: if you point to the result with intent to communicate, the computer produces art.
Chatto Tomsen: Hi Dancer
Filthy Fluno: i invited dancer
Dancer Zhangsun: Ello
quadrapop Lane: hi dancer
JueL Resistance: hi dancer :)
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: welcome dancer
Scarp Godenot: There is a lot of "computer" art here on SL>
Cutter Randt: lol scarp
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: eah, a lot....
Esch Snoats: Yeah but medium doesn't matter
quadrapop Lane: no i meant images made entirely by a machine - not a amachine used as a tool
Filthy Fluno: hi dancer
Esch Snoats: ah ok Quad
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: ah got it.
Scarp Godenot: I thought the medium WAS the message, Esch? heh
quadrapop Lane: lol
Esch Snoats: It's what you -do- with that medium that's the message
Dancer Zhangsun: hey Filthy
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Any more comments/questions of quad?
Dancer Zhangsun: where are we in the convo
Dancer Zhangsun: ?
Esch Snoats: Heya Manx
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Welcome Manx
Manx Wharton: hello good people arto-police.
Filthy Fluno: hey manx
Scarp Godenot: Arrest Manx, now. He is counter revolutionary! heh
JueL Resistance: hi manx :)
JueL Resistance: lol
Manx Wharton: HA
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: ok, guess it is my turn now
Manx Wharton: yes, I'm just not going with the flow.
Manx Wharton: :D
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I think to be art the creator must have focus, for example
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: a dead rat is not art, a photo of a dead rat is not art, but a photo of a dead rat, crafted and framed and lit with intention, is art.
Manx Wharton: you know
quadrapop Lane: hmmmm so until the image is presented within a speific context you do not consider it art?
Manx Wharton: I'm not sure the dead rat isn't art.
JueL Resistance: i agree wake however....again...someone might see dead rat...in it's glory gore, as art
Scarp Godenot: a dead rat IS art if someone points to it with the intent to call it art.
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: then a leaf is art, that cannot be
Filthy Fluno: yea.. but its art only until those people leave
Filthy Fluno: then it goes back to being a dead rat
Esch Snoats: Yeah
Scarp Godenot: It is about the intent of the artist is all I'm saying....
Filthy Fluno: put it in a museum
Manx Wharton: /snicker
Filthy Fluno: and we got something else
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: yes scarp, that's right
JueL Resistance: but it's allin teh WHO views it and what WHO views it sees, feels, their own personal EXperience
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: It is the pointing, the focus
quadrapop Lane: but a leaf is not a human artifact the image is...
Esch Snoats: Who says art has to be human made?
JueL Resistance: ahh true
Scarp Godenot: So juel, is it up to the viewer or listener to determine "what is art"?
Manx Wharton: is human perception enough?
Sky Hye: Maybe art is, "TAKE and PUT"
Filthy Fluno: I say it does esch
quadrapop Lane: in the context of Wake's question
Dancer Zhangsun: oh no. lol
JueL Resistance: Scarp...it is between artist and viewer
Dancer Zhangsun: not everyone is an artist.
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I think it is up to the creator, not the viewer. But the viewer, can of course, reject it, call it crap.
JueL Resistance: i believe.
Dancer Zhangsun: lol
JueL Resistance: Art is.
JueL Resistance: simple as that.
JueL Resistance: it's what you see
JueL Resistance: what you feel
JueL Resistance: what you express
Cutter Randt: I think so manx....human makes the leaf or dead rat art by perciving it
Scarp Godenot: all of life is art then juel?
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: no, it can't be
Scarp Godenot: I don't think so either....
Cutter Randt: why not Pleae?
Manx Wharton: maybe...or it all could be just a great excuse to drink vodka.
JueL Resistance: if YOU see it that way yes scrap, my thought yes
Scarp Godenot: Life is a river, man.....
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: because then it would all be meaningless,
Dancer Zhangsun: In a way I think so.. although much is of course standardized
Esch Snoats: Dust. Wind. Dude.
Filthy Fluno: dude
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: a sunset is not art, but painting or a photo is
Manx Wharton: dude.
Scarp Godenot: It would be like solipsism is to philosophy, no point in defining anything.
JueL Resistance: sunset is art, depending on how you Perceieve
quadrapop Lane: precosely - human artifacts are involved
Cutter Randt: I think your makinng too big of a leap from the perciver making art to meaninglessnes....
Tyrol Rimbaud: / ...... Art is...... the masterful manipulation of a media that creates new forms within that media
Dancer Zhangsun: lol
Sky Hye: take and put
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: that's it sky, take and put. I like it.
JueL Resistance: i would like to agree with that but i think art is waht you feeel when you lok at someting
Manx Wharton: so...can a business then be art.
quadrapop Lane: draw out and present....
Cutter Randt: Please....it would mean that that (A)rtist is meaningless though
Dancer Zhangsun: nature in itself as art.. is open ended.. depends on if "god" is involved
JueL Resistance: if you feel....and call it art,...it is art
Manx Wharton: like an investment bank.
Filthy Fluno: no
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: yes juel, the focus of the creator.
Filthy Fluno: manx
Manx Wharton: heh
Filthy Fluno: no no no
JueL Resistance: yeah wake and the viewer
Scarp Godenot: Nature is art if an artist isolates part of it and puts it out with intent to be art.
Manx Wharton: can Lehman Brothers be an artwork?
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I think the viewer can reject, but not create
Dancer Zhangsun: well yeah.
Filthy Fluno: no manx
Filthy Fluno: i don't think it is
JueL Resistance: yeah if others view it ....... it becomes portrayed as art
Scarp Godenot: Manx I'm sure some conceptualist out there has tried to make it so.
Manx Wharton: /laughinghysterically
Cutter Randt: so if a dead rat is not art...then what is it?
Cutter Randt: so if a dead rat is not art...then what is it?
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: It is a dead rat
Esch Snoats: worm food
JueL Resistance: i don't paint to get recognized, like i said i smearl..i don't even know what the hell i'm doing, but omsone else says OMG
JueL Resistance: and i think ....ok
Dancer Zhangsun: it also depends on perception though.. because i react to orange roses.. i don't to red
Manx Wharton: so what differentiates Lehman from being a dead rat?
JueL Resistance: someone connected to tsomething
JueL Resistance: they call it art
Dancer Zhangsun: but that's not manmade.
JueL Resistance: to THEM it is art
JueL Resistance: to me it's smears of paint
Scarp Godenot: I think a dead rat CAN be art, but isn't until it is defined by an artist as such
Esch Snoats: Well defined by a viewer
quadrapop Lane: context scarp
Esch Snoats: they don't have to be an artist
Scarp Godenot: It is about context, maybe.
JueL Resistance: ahh yeah scarp
Dancer Zhangsun: depends on the context
Chatto Tomsen: Once I was in a big art gallery and after a couple of hours in there I found myself trying to understand a piece in the corner. It was a small grey thing making a noise and it puzzled me for ages until suddenly it occurred to me- it was the dehumidifyer. Art is anything in an art museum that is not the dehumidifyer.
Dancer Zhangsun: yeah scarp woohoo
Dancer Zhangsun: lol
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I must tell you about "No Knife"
quadrapop Lane: lol
Manx Wharton: [cackle]
Esch Snoats: heh
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: I was in college, there was an exhibit of modern art.
Manx Wharton: the dehumidifier was the best thing in there, man.
Scarp Godenot: Maybe Duchamp put the humidifier there. heh heh
Chatto Tomsen: XD
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Students broken it, turned a trashcan upside down, put a place setting there w/o a knife, put a sign on teh wall "No Knife, mixed media
JueL Resistance: something nostaligic?
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: It stayed there for a week before th ecurator noticed.
Esch Snoats: lol
JueL Resistance: LOL
Chatto Tomsen: LOL
Manx Wharton: well done.
Filthy Fluno: awesome
Filthy Fluno: hoooray!
Manx Wharton: I hope they got a B+
Sky Hye: I was at a huge outdoor sculpture garden -- huge -- and the best made thing I saw was a wasp nest
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Yeah, was great, wish I could claim I did it.
Scarp Godenot: Definitely Guerilla art.
Sky Hye: Not manmade or man planned -- the nest was not art
Esch Snoats: My cousin once told me he went to a gallery where there was a painting of a lead pipe sitting on a table. The title of it was "Not a lead pipe"
Filthy Fluno: right sky
Filthy Fluno: not art
Filthy Fluno: but very artinspirational
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Hey folks, time is up but we've not made it around the room. I gotta run but feel free to continue
JueL Resistance: it would be art if i saw it or someone saw it, photographed it from THEIR point of view
Filthy Fluno: yes juel
JueL Resistance: or painted or drawn.....
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: and I hope to see you all next weeek for Part II, Meaning vs. Appearance
Filthy Fluno: who's next
JueL Resistance: ya k now?
Scarp Godenot: Esch, very Magritte.
Manx Wharton: that's the whole magritte 'this is not a painting' thing.
Filthy Fluno: what about if someone picked it off the tree
Filthy Fluno: and displayed it in a gallery
Chatto Tomsen: true- it's not a lead pipe- art doesn't make false claims
JueL Resistance: quad? Manx? Chatto?
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: goodnight all.
Esch Snoats: Night Wake!
Filthy Fluno: seeya wake!
JueL Resistance: hanging themselves getting stung LOL
Filthy Fluno: love you man!
Sky Hye: Goodnight, Wake!
JueL Resistance: night wake
JueL Resistance: :)!
Scarp Godenot: I think we are seeing that intention of the artist is a big part of what is art.
Chatto Tomsen: goodnight Wake
quadrapop Lane: nite wake
Manx Wharton: a bientot
Scarp Godenot: Don't go Wake!
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: night!!!!
Dancer Zhangsun: i agree to that
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: oh?
JueL Resistance: yeah seems to evolve to that
quadrapop Lane: that and presentation ans conrext
Manx Wharton: so...on intent
Sky Hye: I'm taking off too. Thanks all!
Chatto Tomsen: I don't need my turn I've made enough comments already
Esch Snoats: Night Sky!
Scarp Godenot: I have my big sum up!....
Cutter Randt: darn! I missed my time on the mic
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: ok, I'll hang a bit, np
Scarp Godenot: Being last sucks.... ha ha
quadrapop Lane: go cutter
Cutter Randt: it was going to make everyone perfectly clear!
Manx Wharton: bring it scarp! put a bow on this bad boy!
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Cutter, you can go first next week if we round robin it.
Cutter Randt: lol
Filthy Fluno: yea scarp
Filthy Fluno: sorry
Filthy Fluno: lol
Cutter Randt: heheh thanks Please....
Esch Snoats: lol starting to the person to his left?
Esch Snoats: and going clockwise again?
Filthy Fluno: i think we should try different things each week
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: Lets do beer and figure it out
Filthy Fluno: amen to that man
Esch Snoats: lol
Cutter Randt: I think we should "enable combat" for the next discussion on "What is art?"
Dancer Zhangsun: lol
quadrapop Lane: ok thanks for the stimulating discussion folks... see you all next week
Filthy Fluno: who wants to continue this
Esch Snoats: You aren't destroying my bar, I just cleaned it up :D
Dancer Zhangsun: oh what?
Filthy Fluno: lol
Esch Snoats: Later Quad!
Dancer Zhangsun: where are we
Chatto Tomsen: yep cu's
Manx Wharton: art...smells like victory
Manx Wharton: :D
Filthy Fluno: yes
quadrapop Lane: lol
Esch Snoats: Art is art
Filthy Fluno: lol
Esch Snoats: There, end it at that
Filthy Fluno: art is what is made by artists
Filthy Fluno: and artists make art
Dancer Zhangsun: I agree to that
Filthy Fluno: amen
Filthy Fluno: pass the puddin
Dancer Zhangsun: lol
Manx Wharton: Heh
quadrapop Lane: efine artist....
JueL Resistance: hmmmm
quadrapop Lane: lol
JueL Resistance: lol
Esch Snoats: heh
Filthy Fluno: artist is one who makes aht
Dancer Zhangsun: thanks for including me, what little time i had
JueL Resistance: art is in the eye of teh LOOKER UPONERERER
JueL Resistance: lol
Dancer Zhangsun: a lot was going on
Filthy Fluno: thanks dancer
JueL Resistance: and the artist
Filthy Fluno: yea
Filthy Fluno: it gets nuts here
Scarp Godenot: Necessary but not sufficient conditions for "ART" 1) perceivable experience of some sort (object, sound, etc.) 2)intent to call it art by a human who is the artist 3) mostly non utilitarian .
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: CREATOR!!!!
Dancer Zhangsun: I can tell
Dancer Zhangsun: lol
JueL Resistance: it's betwn the artist and viewer
JueL Resistance: lOL yeah
quadrapop Lane: circular definiton filthy - wont get past aesthetics 101....
Esch Snoats: I think it's more between the art and the viewer
Esch Snoats: Once the art is done, the artist takes a back seat
JueL Resistance: each artist expresses in their own way
JueL Resistance: how they feel
JueL Resistance: watercolor
JueL Resistance: oil
JueL Resistance: acrylic
JueL Resistance: ink
JueL Resistance: pencil
Scarp Godenot: I barely got it in under the wire..... heh
JueL Resistance: building
JueL Resistance: windows
Manx Wharton: some folks woudl suggest that the art ends when the artist completes the work.
JueL Resistance: textures
JueL Resistance: etc
Dancer Zhangsun: (i'm gonna have to get use to this) lol
PleaseWakeMeUp Idler: bye all!